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A Conversation on Leadership, Values, and High-Stakes Operations with Mark Fallon, Legendary NCIS Special Agent in Charge and Author of Unjustifiable Means
From busting drug lords to leading the Pentagon task force charged with bringing the 9/11 terrorists to justice, Mark Fallon has spent his career on the front lines of U.S. national security.
My first guest is one of the most fascinating people I’ve interviewed. Former NCIS Special Agent in Charge Mark Fallon is a national security consultant, scholar, and expert in counterintelligence and counterterrorism who’s been involved in some of the most significant terrorism investigations in U.S. history. Mark served more than thirty years in government—twenty-seven with the NCIS and two as a Senior Executive within the Department of Homeland Security. He received numerous awards and medals for his service, including the Department of Defense Counterintelligence Award for Outstanding Achievement and the U.S. Secret Service Director Honors Award.
As an NCIS Special Agent, Mark operated undercover in some of the most dangerous places in the world—from infiltrating drug rings in Thailand to capturing poachers in Kenya.
In the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Mark was appointed Deputy Commander and Special Agent in Charge of the Pentagon task force, responsible for investigating terrorists for possible trials before military commissions. His critically acclaimed book, Unjustifiable Means: The Inside Story of How the CIA, Pentagon, and U.S. Government Conspired to Torture (Regan Arts) offers a gripping account of the leadership challenges he faced while trying to bring terrorists to justice without compromising his oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
We told them: You may not, you must not—you have a duty not to obey an unlawful order.
Mark opens up about what it takes to lead under pressure, the duty to disobey an unlawful order, and why interrogators make the best first dates. He shares leadership lessons that extend far beyond national security—tools for navigating crisis, conflict, and high-stakes decisions in any field.
We also talked about the interview and interrogation techniques that actually work (hint: they involve rapport and, occasionally, French fries), and the moment his wife discovered details of an undercover operation. And he takes us inside his undercover operations—describing his strategies for successful missions.
Today, as founder of ClubFed, Mark serves as an international security consultant and continues his mission for improving the practice of interviews and interrogations.
Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative reporter Bill Dedman calls Mark Fallon “the Serpico in the war on terror,” and high-ranking officials call him an American hero who’s made the world safer. Listen to the podcast—and you’ll understand why.
Learn more at markfallon.us and pick up a copy of Unjustifiable Means, available wherever books are sold.
Here we are at Vanity Fair headquarters in New York. You can watch his VF interview, reviewing interrogations in movies & TV, by following this link to YouTube.
